Curse

Operations · Mar 12, 2007, 06:18 PM // 18:18

Outside of Searing Flames, we're not all that much.

Eles take a very specific build to be a threat in the DPS area. Nuking and DoT skills are not as useful in PvP where the smart enemies don't bunch up. The huge energy pool means squat when 80% of the good skills are 15+ energy, with a long cast time (that screams 'Interrupt me!") and a high recharge (which says, "Ok, I got my hit. I'll go get coffee and come back in a minute.").

They want to keep having these "Test Weekends", well, I got a new test for them. Energy Storage as an increase in regen rather than capacity. Maybe one extra pip of regen per 5 ranks in the attribute. So max out at 3 extra pips. I think the DPS threat might be comparable with 6 pips of regen and the newly balanced 'spam' spells in the Ele lines.

And yeah, almost requiring enchantments to keep that energy up long enough to be a threat... whose brilliant idea was that? And how many ways to hurt enchantment reliant people are there? Yeah...

It might not be so bad if the bloody attunements had a lower recharge. But 45 seconds? Yeah, put it up, cover it with Aura... and it can still be stripped by even an incompetent enchantment stripper leaving you with 30 seconds or more to recast. Yeah...

So, here's my suggestion if anyone at ANet is watching this thread. Either change Energy Storage to Energy Mastery (as increased regen) or lower the recharges on attunements. PLEASE!

Plague · Mar 12, 2007, 06:41 PM // 18:41

I find Eles very effective outside of GvG. I especially hate the E/As or Me/Es or A/Es that use fast casting or teleportation to make those high-damage localized spells effective.

Just bringing a series of spells that do damage isn't going to help anyone. You have to create a build around using the spells, and not expect them to do your work for you.

MirageMaster · Mar 12, 2007, 06:47 PM // 18:47

Awww... so now you cant pwn,cant you? lol you forgot how your ele can be hexed with backfire and SS... 3 spells and your dead

!

arzamond · Mar 12, 2007, 10:27 PM // 22:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Operations

Outside of Searing Flames, we're not all that much.

Eles take a very specific build to be a threat in the DPS area. Nuking and DoT skills are not as useful in PvP where the smart enemies don't bunch up. The huge energy pool means squat when 80% of the good skills are 15+ energy, with a long cast time (that screams 'Interrupt me!") and a high recharge (which says, "Ok, I got my hit. I'll go get coffee and come back in a minute.").

They want to keep having these "Test Weekends", well, I got a new test for them. Energy Storage as an increase in regen rather than capacity. Maybe one extra pip of regen per 5 ranks in the attribute. So max out at 3 extra pips. I think the DPS threat might be comparable with 6 pips of regen and the newly balanced 'spam' spells in the Ele lines.

ele originally has 4 pips. add with 3 and it's 7 !!! that's overpowered!!

Quote:

And yeah, almost requiring enchantments to keep that energy up long enough to be a threat... whose brilliant idea was that? And how many ways to hurt enchantment reliant people are there? Yeah...

It might not be so bad if the bloody attunements had a lower recharge. But 45 seconds? Yeah, put it up, cover it with Aura... and it can still be stripped by even an incompetent enchantment stripper leaving you with 30 seconds or more to recast. Yeah...

So, here's my suggestion if anyone at ANet is watching this thread. Either change Energy Storage to Energy Mastery (as increased regen) or lower the recharges on attunements. PLEASE!

who said ele is not a threat???

Aera · Mar 12, 2007, 10:47 PM // 22:47

All I can say is...wanna scrimmage?

MithranArkanere · Mar 12, 2007, 11:19 PM // 23:19

Eh... what? Eles are alwasya threat!

All my builds, ALL of them are buffed up in every nerfing update.
Who needs more energy regen whn you have more than 100 energy and Energy Glyphs?

ZenRgy · Mar 13, 2007, 12:06 AM // 00:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by MirageMaster

Awww... so now you cant pwn,cant you? lol you forgot how your ele can be hexed with backfire and SS... 3 spells and your dead

!

Aha... Ahahahaha, the bad players always give me a laugh.

Ontopic : Personally I think that ele's are still deadly, not in the sense of big yellow numbers, but snares. Water Magic (as of late) is my favourite element.

With skills such as : [skill]Icy Shackles[/skill] [skill]Deep Freeze[/skill] [skill]Frozen Burst[/skill] [skill]Water Trident[/skill] [skill]Freezing Gust[/skill] [skill]Blurred Vision[/skill]

Snares will provide more pressure for your team by stopping monks and midlines from kiting so they are more susceptible to your frontline, Water Trident is perfect for chain knockdowns and blurred vision great for shutting down melee for hexes aren't as easily removed as conditions.

Rugal · Mar 13, 2007, 12:13 AM // 00:13

Is this a joke thread? When I HA all I see are a bunch of cookie cutter ele builds that pound the shit out of everything.

The Hand Of Death · Mar 13, 2007, 01:00 AM // 01:00

Elementalist is always a threat when I am playing my necro. Not so much as a mesmer because, well, mesmer shut down any spell caster. On top of it, when I am playing my ranger, eles are barely ever a threat but that is because they do reduced damage and I pretty much ALWAYS carry two interupts. Ele elites are weak, I admit to that, but the regular ele skills are fine in my opinion. Buff the weak elites and an ele may be a bigger threat.

Faure · Mar 13, 2007, 01:11 AM // 01:11

If ele's would get a regen of +1 every 5 ranks, other classes are going to get way overpowered. Think of a monk with a regen of 7 :S. You can easily outheal the missing of divine by spamming a bunch of 5-energy skills, you won't loose energy because the regen is too fast.

gameshoes3003 · Mar 13, 2007, 02:51 AM // 02:51

I make my own kick ass builds, and they rock plenty of people. All classes can own if the player is smart.

Coloneh · Mar 13, 2007, 02:56 AM // 02:56

i have your soultion!
dont use fire magic in PvP.
it sounds like you haven even seen the air, water, and most of the earth skills.

dies like fish · Mar 13, 2007, 02:59 AM // 02:59

[skill]Savannah Heat[/skill]

Operations · Mar 13, 2007, 03:50 AM // 03:50

Jesus... so, none of you read 'Why Nuking Sucks" then?

Ok... one at a time.

Quote:

Awww... so now you cant pwn,cant you?

You seem to have missed the point of the thread. I suggest reading 'Why Nuking Sucks" and then come back here. In short, the point is we never really did.

Quote:

Who needs more energy regen when you have more than 100 energy and Energy Glyphs?

Mmmm kay. Glyph of Lesser has a 30 second recharge. If you're not having to rely on the attunements (and that's a great idea with all the enchant hate introduced in Nightfall), what will you do for the other 20-24 seconds?

Quote:

Water Magic (as of late) is my favourite element.

Same here. If you're not in a guild that does HA/TA regularly, good luck finding a team that will take you when you say you're a water build. I don't have that problem now *points at guild tag*, but I remember when I had to try and PUG those areas.

Quote:

[skill]Savannah Heat[/skill]

Um yeah. You must have skipped the whole part of, "Nuking and DoT skills are not as useful in PvP where the smart enemies don't bunch up." Mind you, that skill can be great in tandem with a water Ele...

As for, "+7 regen would be overpowered" and the like... are you considering that at a 1 per 5, we're talking having used either an Energy headgear or a Superior rune for that, with the max points? Then any Ele will likely also have a maxed out primary element. That leaves a lot of missing Health...

And as for Primary Attribute abuse... whatever. You still can't apply runes to secondary attributes, and no one complains about say... Expertise being overpowered, or Fast Casting.

And again... ANet likes all these test weekends. Can we really say until we try it?

nightrunner · Mar 13, 2007, 04:15 AM // 04:15

I kind of doubt Eles will ever end up with the same kind of DPS a melee class can deal. Nuking damage is less threatening, but also harder to mitigate. Sure, spells can be inturrupted, recharges are long, but you can't spam blind or cripple on them to stop them. If you give them too much damage, they overshadow Warriors and Dervishes.

This is the way it should be, imo. I'm not really in favor of the vision for a high damage Ele because it plays a bit like IWAY - your damage is in your build, not your skill. Look at the SF teams - they roll teams not necessarily because of their skill, but with their build. With a warrior or dervish, your effectiveness is dependant on personal and team skill. A good warrior will know which targets to hit, when to hit them, and he'll be more effective if his team can keep conditions off him. Shitty warriors will Frenzy too much or overextend, and perform badly. An nuker like an SF ele, on the other hand, will still be effective in the hands of a noob, because as long as you're pressing buttons and you're not dead, you're dealing around the same damage as a more experienced player would be doing.

Apok Omen · Mar 13, 2007, 04:16 AM // 04:16

Actually, Elementalists are very deadly in every aspect of the game.

Air: Well, everyone already knows that Air Spells can spike, blind, boost, and KD. It is one of the most used attributes in GvG.

Earth: With the new skills in NF, such as Sandstorm, and the ability to spike with one single skill, and also the Wards and Grasping Earth, Earth is a pain to the opposition.

Fire: Don't even say that nuking sucks in GvG based upon what a thread stats. Mind Blast and Savannah Heat are seldom but casually ran in high-end PvP. Searing Flames is only seeing play from Ttgr as a spike, but still deadly. Also, it got buffed for flag-running purposes(Flame Djinn's Haste) And the DoT skills got buffed as well, making them very synergetic with Gale.

Water: Best snares ever. A Water ele alone can make and melee-er, monk, midliner, and flagrunner cry out in anger. The damage and snares got highly buffed, causing more grief to the opposition.

Btw, changing Energy Storage will just make Ele's into secondary gas-stations again. That's it.

BryanM · Mar 13, 2007, 04:49 AM // 04:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Operations

Energy Storage as an increase in regen rather than capacity.

That's obviously not viable. I've been an advocate of it reducing casting costs of ELEMENTAL spells for forever, though. Almost everything elemental is costed under some sort of assumption that an attunement is up.

Channeling is sort of at what a damage elementalist should be. Nice that they decided to pair that attribute with a healing one in a class. It's almost like they totally don't want "degenerate" builds at all. Putting the only viable direct spell damage line next to healage. Brahoo-broooham.

Water it is, I guess. Hydromancer as core class gg bla bla.

Blurred Vision is a REALLY good effect - I feel like it needs a much smaller recharge time, though. HaXes with recharges beyond 10 seconds begin to really be a burden on your bar in PvP. PvE wise, Blurred tends to not even recharge before you want to cast it again. Enfeebling Blood tends to do better for raw mitigation, in those instances.

Iscana · Mar 13, 2007, 05:03 AM // 05:03

I do have a Ele/Mo where I only use healing breeze to heal myself. The rest is pure firemagic but none of them is a skill to nuke. What I use it a few burning skills combined with huge dmg. Then I got a skill which does like 2x more dmg when someone casts (for example healing) and Searing Flames and a hex.

So what I do is cast the hex, and while it's counting down I cast a skill which does 100dmg and gives me 10 energy, then imolate him, searing flames, then when he tries to run or heal, boem 2x times 129dmg, imolate, skill for 100dmg and 10 energy again and searing flames before imolate ends. And this cycle takes down Assasins, Warriors, Monks, Mesmer and all other chars except those dervish wich loads of ele earth magic skills easely down.

Even when I start casting when a Assasin hits me for the first time, I can kill him as long I have Fire Attunement on and that healing enchancement of the ele (forgot the name) which I always keep up the whole match.

But it's not a build to run into a fight and PWN, it's more, let the Tanks run in, follow them and unleash hell when in range. Burn burn baby and let's spike.

I can even manage to run the cycle off with just 15 energy and keep it cyceling. And in overall I have 70 energy, so basicly as long Fire Attunement is up I have no worries, else I just recast it.

It's a very nice build and people do hate it since I keep them burning all the time while dealing loads of dmg to put some stress on them. I still need a bit of tweaking but well it's my nice testbuild. In RA it works like a charm, but then I replace the healing breeze with a res, and basicly have no other support for self healing, but well who cares if you take out ppl in less then a few secs.

nightrunner · Mar 13, 2007, 06:10 AM // 06:10

Seeing as how GW is balanced around GvG, let's not go into RA please.

Dr Strangelove · Mar 13, 2007, 06:31 AM // 06:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Operations

You seem to have missed the point of the thread. I suggest reading 'Why Nuking Sucks" and then come back here. In short, the point is we never really did.

Many of the shortcomings pointed out in that thread are largely irrelevant now. Several skills, namely searing heat and savannah heat, are commonly used in HA to apply insane DPS for a short period of time. If you do the math on flare now, you find it's exactly the same DPS as a warrior under IAS. Granted, a warrior can have buffs stacked on him, but eles are quite capable of dishing out damage now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Operations

Mmmm kay. Glyph of Lesser has a 30 second recharge. If you're not having to rely on the attunements (and that's a great idea with all the enchant hate introduced in Nightfall), what will you do for the other 20-24 seconds?

Glyph of lesser energy is, by far, the best non-elite energy management skill in the game. Seriously, it's that good. Were

Same here. If you're not in a guild that does HA/TA regularly, good luck finding a team that will take you when you say you're a water build. I don't have that problem now *points at guild tag*, but I remember when I had to try and PUG those areas.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Operations

Um yeah. You must have skipped the whole part of, "Nuking and DoT skills are not as useful in PvP where the smart enemies don't bunch up." Mind you, that skill can be great in tandem with a water Ele...

The key is to nuke things when they don't have the option to spread out, for instance at a flagstand, altar, or while snared.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Operations

As for, "+7 regen would be overpowered" and the like... are you considering that at a 1 per 5, we're talking having used either an Energy headgear or a Superior rune for that, with the max points? Then any Ele will likely also have a maxed out primary element. That leaves a lot of missing Health...

The idea is stupid because it doesn't take a genius to start using those seven pips of energy to spam heal party and aegis. This would essentialy be a free ether prodigy on every ele's bar.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Operations

And again... ANet likes all these test weekends. Can we really say until we try it?

Can you really say it's a bad idea to shove potato chips up your nose until you try it?